Silverlight Hack - PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Ryan on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Fri, 29 Oct 2010 02:18:07 -1100

I agree with you 100%. This was a rather large slap in the face to Silverlight developers. Anyone doing anything IN Silverlight will know what is really going on, but getting the people that don't to buy into Silverlight just got "that much harder" after this week.

KristoferA on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Fri, 29 Oct 2010 03:49:48 -1100

Good points on the tools and browser. I think therein lies the problem: they have seen what Google and Apple are doing with HTML5 and Chrome/Safari. Suddenly someone high-up-enough at MSFT realized that with Silverlight they took a wrong turn into a cul-de-sac, essentially they have been repeating the same mistakes they did with msn in 1995. Now they have to reverse out of that, but they're years behind because they put all efforts into Silverlight the last couple of years. I have been using and developing software for Microsoft platforms since the early 1990s, and been a Microsoft fan for that entire time. Some people may shrug this off as "microsoft bashing" or "microsoft hate", but it is not. Recently I attended a Google developer event and I must say I was taken by surprise how well Google's web strategy is put together compared to Microsoft's "we don't know what direction we're going, so let's jump back and forth" mess... Microsoft has lost the grip on their web strategy and they just realized that so the HTML5/SL debacle from PDC is just the fallout of last-minute panic reverse-gear. I'm sad to see that they're losing Ozzie because he seems to be the only person in the SLT that "gets it", and that "got it" years ago... ...hopefully they now have others than Ozzie that can keep them from repeating the same mistake again.

lygren on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Fri, 29 Oct 2010 06:24:56 -1100

"No Microsoft HTML 5 Tooling" I can guarantee you there's not gonna be anything remotely as good as you'd get from SilverLight due to the very fact that Javascript is a language inherently weak on tooling support. For a dynamic language, it's hard to support intellisense, refactoring and so on if you don't know the type of the object. And it gets worse from there, Javascript's tendency to introduce far more run-time errors than strong-type languages and sluggish performance makes it a pain in the neck for any serious app development. It's profoundly stupid to drop a well rounded out language like C# in order to go with the "reach" hype propelled by a plain garbage Javascript.

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Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:00:12 -1100

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Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:36:15 -1100

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samcov on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:42:33 -1100

One other thing. I would have announced something on Silverlight.Net before I EVER said anything to the press.

That was totally disrespectful, and up there with your wife announcing to everyone on the planet that she's sleeping with your best friend, and you hear about it on the 6:00 news.

First they blindly follow Adobe, now it's Apple. I guess when you're getting you stuff handed to you, the guy that's doing it looks like a genius.

Dumb move for sure, but it's a move from a lot of guys insulated from the real world. Scott Barnes warned about this, and he's right.

Microsoft has a serious "Shiny New Object" problem, and Balmer may have a "The last man out of his office was right" problem.

Community Blogs on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Fri, 29 Oct 2010 09:34:09 -1100

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Silverlight Cream for October 29, 2010 -- #80

tom brander on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Fri, 29 Oct 2010 11:59:44 -1100

While it is unfortunate that MS got on the HTML5 bandwagon so late this post shows a woeful lack of understanding of just how available HTML5 tooling already is,, Virtualy all high end smart phones (including WP7) implement a wide set of features, And as for desktop and older browsers the modenizr JS library allows most HTML5 compliant code to run fine even in that worst of all IE6. Silverlight was a flawed concept, and is truly dead on arrival. So get the head out of the sand and read up on the HTML5 capabilities and realize that they most all can run in the current world... no need to wait, that is the reason that the rest of the world has taken that path. Kudos to Microsoft for recognizing that it had taken a wrong path and now waking up, they do have some catch-up to do, this is the internet folks people are not waiting around for Microsoft and its slow movement any more.

BlackWasp on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:26:47 -1100

This seems to be a trend at Microsoft at the moment. At least the Linux / Apple fans have been given respite. they have no need to spread FUD about Microsoft, they are doing it for themselves. As someone who has invested significant energy into Silverlight and WPF (also with FUD spreading) it really makes be concerned about the future of these technologies. Microsoft should be trying to help developers and customers build confidence in their technologies, not the opposite.

Bart Czernicki on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Fri, 29 Oct 2010 14:49:04 -1100

@Tom, I by no means am I a HTML 5 expert, but you are making it seem HTML 5 is fully pervasive already with tooling. - As far as I know HTML 5 is not fully implemented - CSS 3 already has browser specific tags - HTML 5 Canvas can't do everything Flash/Silverlight can so those guys answer is use SVG. SVG is an open standard, but a custom plug-in that only 36% of current browsers support: http://bit.ly/az76XM (why donwload SVG whne u can get Silverlght) - This was at the Microsoft Professional Developers Conference: they announced NOTHING for developers I could list more, but I do understand HTML 5 a little more than "woefully".

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Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:14:28 -1100

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【重磅新闻】微软Silverlight战略发生转移回归HTML5 | IT News - 发布最新IT信息

Leninz on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Fri, 29 Oct 2010 22:52:04 -1100

Man, this seems to be so bad, some stupid MS chiefs spoke their limited mind and all hell broke lose... What can I say, I've worked with php/html/javascript/asp.net ... and SILVERLIGHT which is soo far ahead of the others that it seems it needs to be cut short, killed so the big bunch of limited devs can catch up and do something competitive. Silverlight is the laser sword and html5 is the wooden stick.

Leninz on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:35:34 -1100

Man, a big mistake was made here from MS, the big chiefs who made it should jut resign, they don't know what they're talking about. It's stupidity at it's peak. I mean, where are he MS tools for html5??? What is the MS strategy regarding silverlight-html5, the one their customers didn't know about?? The best devs embarked on wpf/silvelight, trading those for html5 is like trading katana samurais for peasants with wooden sticks.

devcomponents.com on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Sat, 30 Oct 2010 01:24:35 -1100

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Is Silverlight dead? Is WPF dead? Read what Denis Basaric thinks about that!

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Sat, 30 Oct 2010 21:16:05 -1100

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Paul Litwin on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Sat, 30 Oct 2010 22:24:16 -1100

And what about ASP.NET WebForms / ASP.NET MVC developers? Where does this new-found love for HTML 5 put them? Not to mention that this announcement really jeopardizes development for Windows Phone 7, just when it needs to take off. Does anybody know where Microsoft is going anymore or is their collective head in the Cloud (where most of us are not, by the way, but they never bothered to ask)...

Bart Czernicki on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Sat, 30 Oct 2010 23:02:23 -1100

@Paul, I think ASP.NET MVC will be pivotal in the HTML 5 strategy. ASP.NET MVC allows you to take full control over your HTML and adding tooling around this platform for HTML makes the most sense. I really love the comment you just made "this announcement really jeopardizes development of Windows Phone 7, just hwen it needs to take off"...very nicely said!!!

RedmondMax on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Sat, 30 Oct 2010 23:08:45 -1100

There is no conflict between HTML5 and Silverlight. We do not expect Silverlight to replace HTML. But Silverlight is nice enough to build RIA application.

"The CIO/CTO Effect" is huge, likely beyond what Microsoft can understand, so what's Micrfosoft strategy on RIA application.

Plus, WP7 is still a big unknown in market place, what if WP7 fails, then what happen to Silverlight ? even Steve Ballmer does not have 100% confidence if you watch his WP7 launch interviews as how much market share WP7 will gain.

Microsoft is lack of innovation as everyone says, because it has not own believe. often does good job to copy other and catch up staying the game, WP7 is another good example. only difference this time is nicely done, but too late. Microsoft has been trying to so hard to be respected, to be relevant after so many screw ups recent years. finally has something hold its own future like silverlight, as leading technology for RIA application, now shifted ?

Often time, it is about your believe, Apple has own believe, so does Google. what's your believe, Microsoft ? not even believe in yourself anymore ?

David Hanson on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Sun, 31 Oct 2010 02:02:12 -1100

My sentiments exactly. A very poor showing from MS.

rodo on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Sun, 31 Oct 2010 03:40:55 -1100

I think this silverlight death is an ugly thing but necesesary to make Microsoft competitive in the cloud market.
Having the "standard" and "interoperable" tags Microsoft can promote Azure to host HTML applications developed in any technology (php, java, ruby, python, etc.)

If companies replace Windows 7 for cheap Chrome OS browser, and Windows Servers for Amazon EC2 service, then Microsoft die.
If companies replace Windows 7 for Chrome OS but use Azure to host .NET, php and ruby apps, Microsoft survives and make lots of money.

HTML market is 1000 or 10000 times bigger than Silverlight apps market? Silvelight was bad publicity for Azure and Microsoft.

Kamran on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Sun, 31 Oct 2010 06:37:22 -1100

Very nice post.It have raises a lot of concern.

Lixin on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Sun, 31 Oct 2010 06:54:04 -1100

@RedmondMax

Unfortunately Bob Muglia doesn't really know, by using his very capacity limited brain, that Silverlight and HTML 5 are 2 different things and they can even work together very well.

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Sun, 31 Oct 2010 07:14:37 -1100

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On Silverlight/HTML5–maybe WPF is the winner « Joe Blogs

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Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:31:50 -1100

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The Morning Brew - Chris Alcock » The Morning Brew #719

Hemant Sathe on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:58:22 -1100

Your CIO/CTO argument is perfect and will have biggest impact unless there is some damage control. Few days back someone was praising Mugalia for next CEO on mini-microsoft blog. Now I can only laugh at that. But when did MS had any decent tooling for HTML? Most of the current tools are not really world class and in many places dreamweaver still rules. It looks like MS leadership has really lost confidence about future. They do not know how much impact will small devices make. Balmer shouted that PC (Desktops, laptops) will still sell more but that is enterprise scenario. The consumer market is equally big and will bring the market share of PC substantially down not by replacing it but by making the pie bigger. Microsoft seriously needs a strong, powerful visionary. ScottGu? what say?

tom brander on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Sun, 31 Oct 2010 17:12:25 -1100

Of course the Sliverlight support issue would be far less if it were an open source project! HTML 5 is largely already in most high end mobile browsers (inc WP7)and I mentioned it can largely be implemented in a constructive way using the modernizer JS tool in older browsers... It is not clear thinking to believe that one must wait to use it, those who do wait will simply be left in the dust.

samlee on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Sun, 31 Oct 2010 18:48:29 -1100

Two years of learning Silverlight wasted for nothing... time to start learning HTML5.... thanks Microsoft.

i_told_u_you_so on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Sun, 31 Oct 2010 18:53:36 -1100

This is a Microsoft 'FAIL' big scale! Was so stupid to have followed the Proprietary Microsoft Web Application Roadmap/Vision... xaml, silverlight... feel as if being flushed down the toilet. Another sucker died today. RIP.

Dan on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Sun, 31 Oct 2010 20:49:12 -1100

@Tom:
I have not seen ANYWHERE that says WP7 supports HTML5. In fact, a google/bing on "windows phone 7 html5" yields results that say exactly the opposite. And the WP7 marketing sites at Microsoft do not even mention a single bit about it.

And to further support that, if HTML5 "is the future", then why didn't they give a demo of an HTML5 website on a WP7 at the keynote? Surely that would have been a good opportunity to show firm commitment to this future.

Modernizer is nothing more than a capabilities detector. Much of what Bart says is still true. The burden of developing the "fall back" for non-supported functions still rests on the developer.

Basically as it is now, HTML5 is a "value add" feature for developers that wish to add whiz-bang visuals and features to their sites. You simply can't build a consistent experience like you can with Silverlight and Flash because of this monumental gap. In a couple more years, HTML5 will be fantastic. But as it is now, it's spotty, and it's performance is relatively retched on most mobile devices that actually support it..

But as it stands now, there is a lot of redundancy in effort required to ensure your site still runs everywhere. The IE6 example is still true. Except your if statements check to see if it supports a canvas rather than if you're running a particular version of a particular browser.

Well said, Bart. I agree with just about every one of your concerns (and like you, got pissed off enough to blog about it).

Andrex on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Sun, 31 Oct 2010 21:39:29 -1100

This article was OK but in the first point when Chrome Frame is criticized... I have to just say, it's a plugin exactly like Silverlight is. So if a developer wanted to use HTML5 and hit IE, they'd just direct the user to install Chrome Frame. It's not a whole lot different from a Silverlight developer forcing a user to download and install Silverlight, except that with Chrome Frame the rest of the web instantly gets better rendering and speed as well. Just wanted to hit on that one. The rest of the post is understandable coming from a vested SL developer.

Bart Czernicki on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Sun, 31 Oct 2010 21:49:44 -1100

@Andrex, My point on the Google Chrome Frame was exactly that "HTML 5 is plug-in free" story is not like that currently. I will clarify in the article (I didn't mean to say the Chrome Frame is worse than installing Silverlight). I will say that a lot of HTML 5 content will require SVG. SVG is STILL A PLUGIN!!! The only difference is that SVG is going to be "bundled" with most browsers for HTML 5.

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Sun, 31 Oct 2010 22:15:18 -1100

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Sun, 31 Oct 2010 22:32:39 -1100

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Sun, 31 Oct 2010 22:46:45 -1100

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Sun, 31 Oct 2010 22:52:27 -1100

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Sun, 31 Oct 2010 23:01:04 -1100

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Sun, 31 Oct 2010 23:51:50 -1100

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Mon, 01 Nov 2010 00:30:46 -1100

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mg on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Mon, 01 Nov 2010 00:59:54 -1100

@Bart Czernicki: SVG is built into almost all browsers (Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera, Epiphany, Midori, etc.) and has been for many years. The only web browser that needed to use a plug-in was MS IE (prior to IE9). I've been using it in web applications for several years as part of xHTML 4. That's right, xHTML *4*. It's not something that is new to HTML 5. SVG is simply part of the web page and you create it and use it exactly like you would ordinary HTML. You use Javascript to manipulate it and CSS to style it. Any competent web developer can use SVG using the same familiar web development techniques that are used for the rest of the page. You can mix ordinary HTML and SVG together and manipulate them the same way. You get a degree of integration between text and graphics in the web page that just isn't possible with Flash or Silverlight. The big advantage that SVG has over Flash or Silverlight plug-ins is that it's not presenting developers something totally new or alien that exists outside the web page. Rather, it's simply an extension of well known and familiar web page techniques to add vector graphics directly into the web page along side the ordinary text. Furthermore, development tool support for SVG is much more widespread than it is for Flash or Silverlight. As for the announcement in general, I think that Microsoft saw the writing on the wall and made the right decision here. Leaving this announcement until next year would have been doing developers no favours as more of them would have sunk efforts into what for some time now has clearly been a dead end.

RedmondMax on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Mon, 01 Nov 2010 01:25:35 -1100

repost my post at Laurent Bugnion's blog
blog.galasoft.ch/.../...he-silverlight-debate.aspx

------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Laurent for your lengthy response. You have lots my respects. I am about using your MVVM light and buying your book, that says all. Maybe we all were a bit over-react. This Silverlight thing seems an isolated incidence, but not really. Over years, Microsoft lost its creditability if not lost its way yet. When I saw the news, I immediately thought about MS disassembled IE team after they killed Netscape, I thought something like will happen to the Silverlight. The statement like �we are all in� towards to WP7 and the cloud, gave me less confident, not more, more like empty statement from a teenager.

With Apple at left, Google at right, Microsoft is struggling, Silverlight as few good things coming out of Microsoft, last thing you want is to create huge confusion among Silverlight community, your first line of support. and its impact on CIO/CTO is way beyond what Microsoft can understand, really. As MVP, it is probably relatively easy for you to convince CTO/CIO, but not most ordinary Silverlight lovers like myself. Late 2008, I was working on html/Ajax web application in one of well-known companies in Seattle. I spent lots my own time (I am consultant) and put my reputation online pushing Silverlight. Finally I convinced them to the Silverlight, one of reason it was kind difficult because MS lost its credibility among them. Otherwise, its CIO/CTO will push Silverlight, not another way around. This company has over 10 yrs history, over $200M revenue, all they use is Microsoft technologies.

Microsoft built itself on one believe: PC will be in everyone�s hand, and every home. In this Post-PC days, they seems lost their way and their believe, the �shifted� statement only show they are struggling.

Until I gain more confidence, I will think twice to push MS technology with my reputation, I simply can�t afford to do so after what happened over past days.

Bart Czernicki on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Mon, 01 Nov 2010 03:10:01 -1100

@mg, You know you can manipulate HTML with Silverlight, right? SVG by not being standard and not in IE was simply not used widely. In my professional career, I used it a couple times in 2001 to try it out. I am not saying the technology sucks, comparing it to Silverlight is a joke..because the technology does about 1/100th of what Silverlight does.

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Mon, 01 Nov 2010 08:48:14 -1100

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JohnQ on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Mon, 01 Nov 2010 21:09:00 -1100

The writing on the wall says "HTML5", MS saw that and is just reacting to it. Silverlight will linger on but only as a WinPhone7 dev platform. All those angry comments and posts from Silverlight developers remind me of the "uproar" by VB6 developers when .NET came along. They too were a loyal MS customer base that got screwed by a MS shift in direction. But instead of leaving angry comments on blog posts, why not do something useful and pick up an HTML5 book? And if you *really* want to stick with SL then you still have WinPhone7 to play with, so what's the problem here?

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Tue, 02 Nov 2010 08:47:53 -1100

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Tue, 02 Nov 2010 11:38:58 -1100

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Fri, 05 Nov 2010 00:16:01 -1100

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Sat, 06 Nov 2010 01:20:46 -1100

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Fri, 12 Nov 2010 13:12:44 -1100

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RogerV on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Tue, 16 Nov 2010 03:54:38 -1100

As company architect I was on verge of green-lighting use of Silverlight for our Windows .NET based application development. I've now been given pause - despite Silverlight has finally gotten technically sufficient to produce results comparable to our Adobe Flex RIA development. And despite the C# .NET dev staff would love using a client UI technology that they can program in C#. Thanks a lot Microsoft for sowing FUD in respect to your own technology stack.

Bart Czernicki on PDC 2010: Top 5 Reasons Why Microsoft Completely Screwed up their web strategy with HTML 5

Tue, 16 Nov 2010 05:31:34 -1100

@Roger, I echo your pain. I do think this will be clarified even further during the Firestarter December 2nd.